Grizzly Flats - prototype

pvanmeter · **Posted:** Wed Mar 30, 2005 10:48 pm

I am aware that the prototype of Ward Kimball's Grizzly Flats station was located on the Lehigh Valley Railroad's Pottsville branch. Does anybody know where? What town it served? When it was built? Designed by who? or, amazingly, have or seen photographs?!?.

pvanmeter · **Posted:** Thu Mar 31, 2005 1:51 pm

[url=http://www.mylargescale.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=23857]http://www.mylargescale.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=23857[/url]

A bit of searching (via Lycos, not Google), brought me to this link. Rauschs, PA is the place. Photographs may be difficult.

Steve DeGaetano · **Posted:** Thu Mar 31, 2005 3:11 pm

That's very intersting, pvanmeter. It looks like the posters on that thread counldn't definitvely verify if Rauschs was the location, but it looks like they were zeroing in on it.

I sure would like to check out "Buildings and Structures of American Railroads."

Railfan · **Posted:** Sat Apr 02, 2005 1:22 am

Steve, do you know if dlrcad.com will have drawings of the Frontierland Station? Or copies of Ward's drawings of the Grizzly Flats Station? Are the differences between Ward's Grizzly Flats Station and the Frontierland Station only minor?

pvanmeter · **Posted:** Sat Apr 02, 2005 2:10 pm

I ordered a "Buildings and Structures of American Railroads," that, I think, identifies the design as Rauschs; so we will see. It's logical the Lehigh Valley would build a beautiful depot at this location. The late coming to the lower anthracite fields LV crossed over (on a bridge -now gone) the Philadelphia and Reading at Rauschs. The P&R was at the time, the most powerful corporation in the world and featured many extrordinary Frank Furness stations. The LV certainly would want to make an impression on all those Reading passengers. A design that relates to Rauschs, with diagonal boards and similar trim was built on the same branch at Orwigsburg, then county seat. Photos exist, station does not.
Plans for the Rauschs flagstop were published in the 12/1946 Model Railroader and doubtlessly made an impression for the made in 1949 "So Dear to My Hear." Little doubt Ward Kimball had the magazine. Now, if there was only a photograph. That would be so cool! And also...who did design the LV, Grizzly Flats, Frontierland, etc depot!?

Steve DeGaetano · **Posted:** Sat Apr 02, 2005 3:18 pm

There are minor differences between the Grizzly Flats depot and Frontierland Station.

1. Frontierland Station has double doors front and back to accommodate the crowds; GF has only a single door.

2. Frontierland has doors on either end of the station, allowing folks to wait under the platforms. GF has only windows on the station ends.

3. Frontierland's front and back fascades are mirror-images of each other, each with a ticket bay window. I've never seen the back of GF, but I doubt it has a bay; more likely, it's just flat, perhaps with windows.

Preston has done drawings of Frontierland. You can contact him directly; they should be available. They also include the platforms.

Ed Kelley · **Posted:** Sun Apr 03, 2005 3:00 pm

It's going around that Betty Kimball has been looking to sell the property. I understand the future of the station might be in jeopardy due to the fact it might not be possible to properly relocate it intact to Perris when the time comes. Family and friends of the Kimballs' have still been periodically enjoying the railway, and I guess everything will remain until the property is actually sold.

I haven't been up to Perris, and am aware they have a pretty significant narrow-gauge collection now, between Ward's stuff, the old West Side caboose donated by Karl Koenig, and I believe at least one item that operated on the S.P.C. Seen some photos of a reconstructed gallows turntable and some freshly-laid track. Enough to run something on in the future? It can certainly be said they've built a good home for their narrow-gauge collection. I believe the VCR 2 is still being rebuilt at the moment; nice to know these combination trolley/railroad museums aren't slacking off on the non-electric stuff...like the BAERA.

FirehouseFivePlusTwo · **Posted:** Sun Apr 03, 2005 4:00 pm

Ed,
I have heard the same thing from several sources. I hope that the Firehouse and it's contents will also be well taken care of. I heard an interesting anecdote from an old friend and coworker of Ward's that he actually buried the rails at Grizzly Flats at some point during the war to prevent them from being taken for the war effort.

It is quite interesting to note that Kimball's 1914 LaFrance fire engine was originally used in Venice, CA, where BJWRR's beloved two spot once ran. Hmmmm.

Ed Kelley · **Posted:** Sun Apr 03, 2005 4:15 pm

Paul,
That's not all; Ward had even closer connections to the Venice Railway. He was a personal friend of the McCoy family, which purchased VMR #1 after the 1968 closing of Stream-Land Park in Pico Rivera. When Don McCoy and his sons, Mike and Jeff, rebuilt the locomotive, Ward took care of painting her. Both locomotives were originally constructed with a Russian Iron boiler jacket, which was long since removed and unavailible (has been that way for years). The paint Ward used imitates a blued steel effect close to resembling the color of Russian Iron. The locomotive operated near Legg Lake in El Monte at the Whittier Narrows Recreation Area, on a formerly-15" gauge pike run by Seymour Johnson. That equipment is now in Traverse City, Michigan. The #1 and her train of two coaches, along with the 2-spot's original tender (the 1's had already been scrapped when the locomotive was sold to Al Smith of, coincidentally, San Gabriel), are still in the McCoy family. The 1 is stored, operable, in that same stunning paint.

Part 1 of the Venice Railway Centennial article can be found in the On Track Webzine; Spring Issue, with Part 2 to follow for the Summer edition in late-June. The 2-spot will be in operation for the Summer Season at the BJWRR on weekends (possibly only Saturdays), with a 100th celebration planned in the park for May. First time in 11 years, and the Winter will see one of the winter work sessions from the good old days. Her running gear still requires significant work as most of the time was devoted to reboilering her, which should not have included having to manufacture all those new parts if it had been ordered to the proper dimensions of the original, which had nothing wrong with its design. When the boiler arrived, it wouldn't even fit the saddle, due to it being about an inch wider in diameter at the smokebox, and an inch narrower down the length of the barrel. It's probably one of few locomotives with Vanderbilt (cylindrical firebox) boilers still in existence, since the primary user was the SP (designed specifically for oil-fired locomotives), and those have all been scrapped off.

After 10 years, I can tell you for a fact SEVERAL locals (with the exception of the old-timers and of course BJWRR volunteers) have forgotten of her very existence. Darn are those guys on the Creek Trail going to be surprised to wait for HER to pass through...new grade crossing there, too.

1Wallygator · **Posted:** Sun Apr 03, 2005 10:35 pm

I remember as a kid in the mid sixties riding a train at Legg Lake! I think there was one that was steam. I do remember a diesel running there also. Does anyone have any pictures?

Grizzly Flats - prototype

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